Sikhs and Meat
Those who would read this, please read this as without any bias towards anything. This is not to tell or force anybody to eat what and what not.
Gurbani rejects suppression, be of any kind!
I am a Vegetarian, by choice.
I have never eaten meat etc, so I don't know its taste and hence no craving as well. What I eat is purely my choice and others should not have any objection or amusing feeling about one's taste. I don't like onion in Daal, but like it raw on Chhole Bhatoore. It is a question of personal choice.
Those who eat meat, endorse from Gurbani, say that there is nothing wrong in eating meat. I agree with those who say that for survival, one can eat whatever the body needs, but if this is just to negate those who say that meat-eating is bad, and then they ask others to eat meat, I would not tolerate them!
Some say, "Show me where it is written in SGGS that one should not eat meat?", can anybody tell them that SGGS also doesn't say about keeping the Hair.
SGGS is GURU, not a to-do and don't-do book!Those who tell people different stories that Gurus ate meat etc etc, are also too much engaged in discussing the topic. If they are justifying themselves, then they are not correct. But if they say that Gurbani doesn't care, then I would support them!
The most amusing ones are those who eat mutton and chicken but doesn't eat beef, as they believe that the cow is a holy animal! I just laugh! If you are killing an animal, why are you differentiating whether it is a holy or not?
Why a Cow is holy? Because it gives milk? So does Goat, and a camel, and nearly every mammal!!
But...
I have found that those who do not eat meat, tend to think that they are better than those who eat meat, and claim to have it endorsed by Gurbani. They give numerous examples from Kabir ji, but just take one line and doesn't take the MORAL from the SALOK or Sabad.
And those who say that eating meat is bad, but drinking milk is okay, I laugh! Milk contains far more living cells than an egg, and milk is a direct skin protein that comes from the udder, while egg has its layer on, and not a direct protein to be consumed. It has to be broken and then only it can be consumed.
We are eating eggs all the time! Be it hen's, duck's, fly's, mosquitos', or just plain dead larvae in rice!!
Guru Nanak Sahib says, the one who is fighting about the meat is a fool as he is too much indulged in shunning away those who just consider it a food! Guru ji says, the fool does not have any knowledge and he just cannot differentiate what is meat and what is not!!
Guru says, that the main source of living is water, and through water, every kind of living beings are born, hence one should not drink water as well???
It is the water which has so many micro organisms and the first form of life was blue-green algae, a bacteria.
From blue-green algae, and decaying vegetation, amoeba formed, and it still forms! Slowly life formed in water, and it was a long time later that life came on earth when fish developed foot and had lungs instead of gills!
The evolution occured, and it is still occuring! The AKAL PURAKH is always happening, always changing and still constant!!
In the end, I found out that those who eat meat and are very nice human beings, are a lot better than those who don't eat meat but always ready to quarrel!
What is the conclusion?We have to identify the SIN, the Paap... and the wisdom that comes from Guru's intellect will cleanse the thoughts!!
Comments
if someone doesn't eats nonveg and if i eat, then the moment it goes into my mouth it will be just a normal food for me, bcoz i dnt believe in that discrimination in food:).
That’s a very nicely written article. I applaud your effort with all my heart. The end didn't do justice to it though according to me. In the end you found that meat eater's are better human beings ( donno how that came to be the conclusion from what was being discussed :) ) and ready to quarrel!!! (now that I know was written for just some fun :) )....
All I find in SGGS, with my limited search related to this topic is Guru
Nanak so beautifully and eloquently summing up in his writings “baba hor khana khusi khuar, jis khade tan piriai man mein chalai vikar" . Very much rightly said, just like any other teachings in SGGS which erase beyond a reason of doubt the confusions we tend to create.
Then why are meat eaters according to you trying to justify themselves to lookup into history by looking at the lives of the living Guru’s. Maybe as to them they want to see answer’s in the life of Guru who would have for sure followed Sikhi in the rightful way. Or why are the meat eaters looking for science to support there cause of a high protein diet for some special needs in case of illness.
Be it History or be it science I think meat eaters are looking to answer what feels right to them but is at times classified as taboo as per some Amritdhari’s and Sikhs in general . It does make you question your belief as a Sikh when you have never seen meat being served at langar but when you as a meat eater Sikhs are eating it three times a day at times.
I for one believe this to be a cleaverly “Chautilya style” created confusion like the other
to overpower or destroy religions which challenged some particular sects supremacy and posed a threat to a certain way of life. They have used this policy very successfully to strangle Sikhism. Be it Rehat maryada on Halal meat to Kachi Baani to all and other forms of teachings or guidelines which don’t stand there merit when tested against the Guru Granth Sahib.
I for one see this introspective question for Sikhs today on weather Sikhism’s teachings teach us not to eat or to eat meat being an outcome of such created confusions.
In the end I would say life is about making choices daily and every minute. A choice to do or don’t. The very questions of doing some things or don’t which started from Baba Nanak. And who better to ask or look for an answer the SGGS. So I still ask this question at times to scholars as I feel I have not researched SGGS enough Show me where it is written in SGGS that one should not eat meat?
Hope none of my comment's hurt anyones feeling. It was never my intention.So hope no one becomes too touchy :))
I think Guru Nanak Sahib has called Maas as just another RAS.
"RAS SOYENA, RAS ROOPA, KAAMAN, RAS PARMAL KI VAAS||
RAS GHORAY, RAS SEJA MANDAR, RAS MEETHA, RAS MAAS
ETE RAS SAREER KE, KAE GHAT NAAM NIVAAS?"
Now, we don't stop buying Gold and silver, we keep on doing makeups, be it physical or mental, we keep our air filled with aroma, we keep big cars, we keep big king-size beds and swimming pool equipped homes, and eat numerous kind of food including sweets and meat (expensive food), with all these pleasure seeking thoughts, how do we see the all permeating LORD?
"Lucky is the lion that the human will eat, so that the lion becomes human. And foul is the human that the lion will eat, and the lion still will become human."
Just same meanings as Gurbani, where Lion can be associated with our "Mann"!!
Stay Charhdi Kala!
What is the difference between eating a human and an animal? Doesnt the same theory of not differentiating based on food apply?
“baba hor khana khusi khuar, jis khade tan piriai man mein chalai vikar"
so that answers alot on what to think related to decision on food. I do see cannibalism being still practiced but not for the reasons that all food sources have ended or something like this is food for someone...like the aghori sadhu's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aghori
I don't support cannibalism but I feel that it is true that humans are as much food for a loin as is a zebra. But is a lion a food for lion....who gave them the brains to not each other and eat zebra(etc) only...and well why then they dont eat grass...so I think it's all under hukam...some are carnivores some herbivores some omnivores and ones with twisted brains are carnivores and should be locked up :)
What does God/Religion say about a person who eats human flesh even if there is availability of other meat. And how would the treatment be different for a person who eats cow/goat meat.
But everything is for a purpose , we eat to sustain ourselves. But our main aim is to enjoy this life to the fullest and best possible extent. But by killing another human to eat, we have created a bigger problem, we have accepted the fact that it is fair game for others to kill and eat "me" too ! So , even though game theory was not postulated until 1960's, but our ancestors understood that by not murdering each other for food we create a safer world for ourselves (win-win). If some "granthi"/"pundit" wants to associate the so called "karmic sin" tag to it , he is welcome to do it in his own mind.
जे रतु लगै कपड़ै जामा होइ पलीतु ॥
Je raṯ lagai kapṛai jāmā ho▫e palīṯ.
If one's clothes are stained with blood, the garment becomes polluted.
ਜੋ ਰਤੁ ਪੀਵਹਿ ਮਾਣਸਾ ਤਿਨ ਕਿਉ ਨਿਰਮਲੁ ਚੀਤੁ ॥
जो रतु पीवहि माणसा तिन किउ निरमलु चीतु ॥
Jo raṯ pīvėh māṇsā ṯin ki▫o nirmal cẖīṯ.
Those who suck the blood of human beings-how can their consciousness be pure?
So what is cannibalism, treating other human being as food for sustenance? treating other human as so low that eating it will satisfy ego? thinking eating fellow human for superrr powers? basically eating ur own kind for whatever reasons. How different is it from killing a person for whatever reasons? How different is it from mass murdering ur own kind as ethnic cleansing? Basically how different is it from treating your own kind as meat for money/greed/lust/power/hunger....
It is not what god says about eating humans when the availablity of other meats. Its what god says that others are not just meat.
yes there are alot of other creatures who eat there own kind and we dont have to go far for examples to birds etc(they eat diff species of bird if acting according to nature like big carnivore eats small one...t-rex eating a lil dino)...humans are the example in front of us.
I was wondering if blood transfusion will be cannibalism :)....
the same self who has put this question in your mind knows the true answer.
The message of Sikhi is very clear. Eating meat or not eating meat is a personal choice, "Only Fools Wrangle over Flesh".
Arguments about cannabalism are silly when compared to meat eating per se.
The question here is whether we are attached to taste. We can be attached to vegetable taste, sweet taste, meat tase. All are a distraction.
Waheguru Ji Ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh
For - Joginder Singh Ji. You have mentioned about 'Jap Ji Sahib' recited by 'Gora Sikhs' (western, is the word I prefer to use) in a comment at Mr.Sikhnet blog.
You said you have mailed them to your friends. I'm in love with Western style kirtan so please do send them to me too.
Thanks and
Gurfateh Ji.
* Professor Gurbax Singh Dhillon - Meat Eating and Rehat Maryada
* Video Showing Jhatka at Hazoor Sahib
* www.sikhs.org/meat_au.htm
* www.sikhs.org/meat.htm
* http://www.sikhs.org/meat_gn.htm
* http://www.sikhs.org/meat_gs.htm
* http://www.sikhs.org/meat_q.htm
* http://www.sikhnextdoor.org/teachers/faq.html
* http://www.sikhism.com/rehatmaryada
* http://popularsikh.com/node/65642
* http://www.globalsikhstudies.net/pdf/Prespective_on_Sikh_tradition.pdf
ਜੇ ਰਤੁ ਲਗੈ ਕਪੜੈ ਜਾਮਾ ਹੋਇ ਪਲੀਤੁ ॥
ਜੋ ਰਤੁ ਪੀਵਹਿ ਮਾਣਸਾ ਤਿਨ ਕਿਉ ਨਿਰਮਲੁ ਚੀਤੁ ॥
जे रतु लगै कपड़ै जामा होइ पलीतु ॥
जो रतु पीवहि माणसा तिन किउ निरमलु चीतु ॥
If you get a blood stain on your clothes, they get spoiled and you wash them straigtway or discard them. Likewise if a man (Human) drinks blood then you can never be pure. In essence if you can't be pure how will you achieve salvation/God which is the prime aim of human life.
Hi Guys this is straightforward. People defend their decisions by building arguments like where is it written in SGGS not to eat meat or eat meat.
Guru Nanak Dev Ji and other Great Saints have given indications in the SGGS. It is not a descriptive text and people interpret it the way they want to. The above two lines speak blatantly for themselves.
Bhagat Kabir have mentioned it numerous times in his speech about meat consumption. Kabir ji's Vani is incorporated in SGGS and is as sacred as anyone elses. If Sant Kabir is saying about not eating meat, then it does carry value, for me atleast it does. People would pull up one line which fits their thinking and then disregard all the other speech which is asking you not to eat meat. It was a bit long so I have made a blog for this purpose by accumulating Kabir Sahib's Vani. Please see Kabir Dohe on being Vegetarian. I would be interested in knowing what others think.
I am pleasantly surprised to see Bhagat Kabeer Saab's baani in a similar lingo as in SGGS. I always thought that all of his baani is present in Guru Granth Sahib, but didn't know. Now, I think it would be, but as you have written, the style and language is same, but the words are changed here and there.
do you know how it was written originally by kabeer saab? which language? because in SGGS, most of the gurbani form is Prakrit (Punjabi).
guys, please discuss more on this topic...
Very prompt. I am surprised as well. As far as I am aware this Vani has been taken from "Kabir Shabdavali" or "Kabir Sagar". Its written in hindi. Kabir Sahib narrated his vani to his disciple Dharamdas ji who wrote it and compiled it in the form of "Kabir Sagar"
This is another good one but this one is from SGGS.
ਕਬੀਰ ਲੂਟਨਾ ਹੈ ਤ ਲੂਟਿ ਲੈ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਹੈ ਲੂਟਿ ॥ ਫਿਰਿ ਪਾਛੈ ਪਛਤਾਹੁਗੇ ਪ੍ਰਾਨ ਜਾਹਿੰਗੇ ਛੂਟਿ
Self explanatory but Kabir Sahib is talking about the importance of naam and saying when you are in human life and if a Satguru is present then you have an opportunity to take naam but you will repent once this life has finished as your human life will be wasted.
It took some time but finally I found them.
The following lines are from SGGS page 1374.
ਕਬੀਰ ਜੋਰੀ ਕੀਏ ਜੁਲਮੁ ਹੈ ਕਹਤਾ ਨਾਉ ਹਲਾਲੁ ॥ ਦਫਤਿਰ ਲੇਖਾ ਮਾਂਗੀਐ ਤਬ ਹੋਇਗੋ ਕਉਨੁ ਹਵਾਲੁ ॥੧੮੭॥
Forcefully and without any compassion you kill a goat etc. and say that you are doing halal. When your account will be called for in the court of God, then who will save you there?
ਕਬੀਰ ਖੂਬੁ ਖਾਨਾ ਖੀਚਰੀ ਜਾ ਮਿਹ ਅਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਲੋਨੁ ॥
ਹੇਰਾ ਰੋਟੀ ਕਾਰਨੇ ਗਲਾ ਕਟਾਵੈ ਕਉਨੁ ॥੧੮੮॥
Superior most food is khichri (dish made from rice and lentils with salt), eat that. One who cuts someone else's neck has to pay back.
SGGS page 483
ਰੋਜਾ ਧਰੈ ਮਨਾਵੈ ਅਲਹੁ ਸੁਆਦਿਤ ਜੀਅ ਸੰਘਾਰੈ ॥ ਆਪਾ ਦੇਖਿ ਅਵਰ ਨਹੀ ਦੇਖੈ ਕਾਹੇ ਕਉ ਝਖ ਮਾਰੈ
॥੧॥
You keep fasts to please Allah (God), while you murder other beings for taste. You only look after your own interests and don't care about others. You are wasting your time, God will never be pleased with you.
SGGS page 4
ਅਸੰਖ ਮੂਰਖ ਅੰਧ ਘੋਰ ॥ ਅਸੰਖ ਚੋਰ ਹਰਾਮਖੋਰ ॥
ਅਸੰਖ ਅਮਰ ਕਿਰ ਜਾਹਿ ਜੋਰ ॥ ਅਸੰਖ ਗਲਵਢ ਹਤਿਆ ਕਮਾਹਿ ॥ ਅਸੰਖ ਪਾਪੀ ਪਾਪੁ ਕਰਿ ਜਾਹਿ ॥ ਅਸੰਖ ਕੂੜਿਆਰ ਕੂੜੇ ਫਿਰਾਹਿ ॥ ਅਸੰਖ ਮਲੇਛ ਮਲੁ ਭਖਿ ਖਾਹਿ ॥ ਅਸੰਖ ਨਿੰਦਕ ਸਿਰਿ ਕਰਹਿ ਭਾਰਿ ॥
Countless are fools, blinded by ingnorance. Countless are thieves and embezzlers. Countless impose their will by force. Countless cut-throats and are ruthless killers. Countless are sinners who keep on sinning. Countless are liars, wandering lost in their lies. Countless are wretches, eating filth as their food.
I think no one can ask for more evidences. If someone still wants to argue, then whatever it may take they are not going to budge.
God has very clearly said via His speech about the food we should eat and not commit any sin by killing other beings for any reason whatsoever.
Moreover God gives the same order in Holy Bible as well.
Sixth Day of Creation (Genesis, on page no. 2, A. 1:20 – 2:5)
29 I have provided all kinds of grain and all kinds of fruit for you to eat;
30 but for all the wild animals and for all the birds I have provided grass and leafy plants for food -and it was done.
Full account can be read here
Bible